I can't remember where I've read this, so it's just my word against yours, but its been statistically proven that the majority of people who are in north american prisons claim to have a belief in god. It's also been statistically proven that the majority of people in jail have lower IQs than the general population, but I digress. god does not want me to be saved because god does not exist. Lets say for the sake of argument that he does exist though. god is omnipotent and omniscient. Since we are assuming god is real in this conversation, let us further assume that hell is real, and is more-or-less as it is believed to exist by the majority of contemporary christians: a terrible place of eternal torment, and one which, in order to avoid it, one needs to be a christian and undergo certain practices and such (which vary widely from one denomination to another, and so we’ll leave that open within this dialogue). Moreover, god is generally considered "good", in a fairly conventional way; well-intentioned and benevolent. He is believed, by most christians, to basically want people not to go to hell, but allows them the freedom to choose their own choices in life, which can lead them wherever it will. Assuming all of this, god knows me better than I know myself, and knows what sorts of situations I would need to be exposed to in order that I might be able to believe that he exists. Furthermore, given his unlimited power and knowledge, he knows a presumably infinite number of scenarios in which I would come to believe in him. Let us call this set of scenarios “Set A”. Any and all scenarios in which I would not ultimately come to believe in him, become a christian and thus avoid hell can therefore be called “Set B.” So far, in my life, I have only been exposed to scenarios from Set B. A common christian line of thinking on this topic might produce the idea that I have in fact been exposed to many situations which MIGHT have convinced me, but I have so far chosen not to be convinced (“free will”). I would argue, however, that given god’s precise and unwaveringly-correct knowledge, however, he would know that any such situation ultimately would not convince me, which places them firmly in Set B. God, in this scenario, could at any point in my life up to this point, have exposed me to any of the scenarios in Set A. He has not done so, however, in that I have yet to be persuaded. he furthermore knows (again, with absolute certainty and clarity) that everything I’ve been exposed to thus far exists within Set B. He has not allowed any of the scenarios in Set A to have taken place, and taken no action to cause any of them to take place. Given this, it must be assumed that he either does not wish for me to believe in him, or is merely indifferent. If i were to die tomorrow, never having been exposed to any of the scenarios in Set A, I would – by our earlier assumptions – go to hell and be punished forever for not believing and not becoming a christian (whatever that may entail). I would in short be subjected to eternal and inescapable torture for not having been exposed to any of the events in Set A. An omniscient god would know that one of the events in Set A needs to take place in order for this to be avoided. If such a god decides that my lifetime should pass without any of the events in Set A to take place, he is deciding that I should go to hell, as surely as a man who sees a child wandering blindly into traffic and chooses not to stop that child is deciding that that child should die.
no subject
Date: 2010-07-12 11:22 am (UTC)god does not want me to be saved because god does not exist.
Lets say for the sake of argument that he does exist though. god is omnipotent and omniscient. Since we are assuming god is real in this conversation, let us further assume that hell is real, and is more-or-less as it is believed to exist by the majority of contemporary christians: a terrible place of eternal torment, and one which, in order to avoid it, one needs to be a christian and undergo certain practices and such (which vary widely from one denomination to another, and so we’ll leave that open within this dialogue). Moreover, god is generally considered "good", in a fairly conventional way; well-intentioned and benevolent. He is believed, by most christians, to basically want people not to go to hell, but allows them the freedom to choose their own choices in life, which can lead them wherever it will. Assuming all of this, god knows me better than I know myself, and knows what sorts of situations I would need to be exposed to in order that I might be able to believe that he exists. Furthermore, given his unlimited power and knowledge, he knows a presumably infinite number of scenarios in which I would come to believe in him. Let us call this set of scenarios “Set A”. Any and all scenarios in which I would not ultimately come to believe in him, become a christian and thus avoid hell can therefore be called “Set B.” So far, in my life, I have only been exposed to scenarios from Set B. A common christian line of thinking on this topic might produce the idea that I have in fact been exposed to many situations which MIGHT have convinced me, but I have so far chosen not to be convinced (“free will”). I would argue, however, that given god’s precise and unwaveringly-correct knowledge, however, he would know that any such situation ultimately would not convince me, which places them firmly in Set B. God, in this scenario, could at any point in my life up to this point, have exposed me to any of the scenarios in Set A. He has not done so, however, in that I have yet to be persuaded. he furthermore knows (again, with absolute certainty and clarity) that everything I’ve been exposed to thus far exists within Set B. He has not allowed any of the scenarios in Set A to have taken place, and taken no action to cause any of them to take place. Given this, it must be assumed that he either does not wish for me to believe in him, or is merely indifferent. If i were to die tomorrow, never having been exposed to any of the scenarios in Set A, I would – by our earlier assumptions – go to hell and be punished forever for not believing and not becoming a christian (whatever that may entail). I would in short be subjected to eternal and inescapable torture for not having been exposed to any of the events in Set A. An omniscient god would know that one of the events in Set A needs to take place in order for this to be avoided. If such a god decides that my lifetime should pass without any of the events in Set A to take place, he is deciding that I should go to hell, as surely as a man who sees a child wandering blindly into traffic and chooses not to stop that child is deciding that that child should die.