Ecclesiastes 9-12

[wolfpurplemoon]

Everyone dies so enjoy life while you can, as noone knows when their time is up, once you're gone that is it.

Wisdom is better than war, although good things can be destroyed by one sinner.

Wisdom is needed in every day life to avoid dangers that can occur during your work, even the bible is obsessed with health and safety!

Again, human knowledge had surpassed what was known in biblical times, we do know the path of the wind and we understand the development of the foetus in its mother's womb, so (following the logic of 11:5) obviously we can know the "work of God who makes everything".

How does this not make your head explode? You are to enjoy your life to the fullest, following your desires and impulses. BUT you must remember that God is judging you at all times. And while keeping that in mind you have to avoid stress, how?

And the conclusion of this book? Fear God and follow his commandments. I'm not entirely sure how Ecclesiastes leads you to that conclusion.

Comments

[kevinswitzer.livejournal.com]

Yeah, we know about how a fetus develops in the womb. We know the process. But we don't really understand how one little sperm and one little egg meet and form the insanely intricate human body.

We just had a son in January, and it's so crazy to think about the fact that he has eyes that see, and nose that smells, and a functioning brain... and all of that came from a sperm and an egg.

Let me ask you a question (in all seriousness): where did humans come from?

[wolfpurplemoon]

I agree, it is amazing and astounding that a complex human develops from a single fertilised egg. But if you looked you'd find there is plenty of research into the development of foetuses and it is a process that is quite well understood. As for where humans came from, that's evolution 101 and also well understood and backed up with ample evidence.

What I don't understand is the desire to credit God with anything that seems complicated or improbable. It is far more satisfying to study the wonders around us and understand what is really happening.

I mean, just look up the articles about Stephen Hawking's new book, as we learn and work out more and more about the universe there really is no need to explain things with God.

[kevinswitzer.livejournal.com]

We don't want to credit God for anything that seems complicated. We want to credit God for everything. God put us on the planet to investigate and research. Can we figure things out? Of course! That's part of the fun. Do we know why fetuses grow into humans? Yes. But what started all of that process in the first place? Who or what made that process happen?

God loves it when we figure stuff out. God is like a parent. When my kid figured out how to crawl, it was AWESOME! I understand crawling. I know how it works. But my kid figured it out. The same goes for God.

As for evolution... yeah, there's proof of evolution. But I don't buy the whole humans came from apes thing for a minute. If that were true, then why are there still apes? Why haven't they evolved into humans?

People love to point out that we share 99.9 % of our genes with monkeys. Yet we share 99.6 % with a cucumber. 0.4% makes a big difference.

[voodooskeleton.livejournal.com]

Actually, humans didn't come from apes. That is a common misconception. Humans and apes actually share a common ancestor whose population split to become two (and more) lineages. The question is rather like asking, "If many Americans and Australians are descended from Europeans, why are there still Europeans around?" Why does it seem so crazy to think we once had similar lives to monkeys, but it doesn't seem crazy to think we came from dust? I'd also like to know where you're pulling the cucumber number from. I've never heard it before but would be interested in learning more. It almost seems like you don't really understand what you are talking about.

"But what started all of that process in the first place? Who or what made that process happen?"

I believe that question was answered for you in her first response, but I will requote for you:
"But if you looked you'd find there is plenty of research into the development of foetuses and it is a process that is quite well understood. As for where humans came from, that's evolution 101 and also well understood and backed up with ample evidence."

To put it plainly, google it. Go to the library and look it up. Spend an afternoon on wikipedia. If you can't find an answer for anything that way, that doesn't mean there isn't one, it just means it hasn't been found yet. Yes, life is mysterious, but it's wasteful to just sit there and go 'gee life sure is mysterious' and say god did it. It really limits your capability to learn. Yes, science doesn't know everything, either, but that doesn't mean we just fill in the gaps with god. That's lazy.

[wolfpurplemoon]

I'm sorry I just can't take anyone seriously who still thinks 'why are there still apes' is a good argument against evolution.

[kevinswitzer.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I guess I should have put a smiley or something to indicate my sarcasm in the "why are there still apes" thing. I was just joking. I see evolution and the evidence of it.

I'm not trying to change your mind about Christianity. Like I said from the beginning, I'm hoping to learn from you and hopefully you can learn something from me.

[wolfpurplemoon]

Poe's Law always holds true on the internet I guess, I'm just so used to people (Christians) spouting these sorts of phrases parrot fashion that it is tiresome to try to answer them every single time.

Learning is good, I heartily approved of that! :)

[kevinswitzer.livejournal.com]

Haha... yeah, sarcasm is hard to pick up on in typing.

I guess for me... and I'm speaking personally, not for all Christians, because I think there are a lot that would disagree with me... but I think, yeah, there's evolution. There's proof of it. Why is it so hard to believe that God made things to evolve.

And do I believe that God made humans from dust? Well... two of them, yeah, I guess I do. Is that crazy to believe? Maybe. But I also believe that God is capable of things we can't even imagine. I guess that's the point of religion... just having faith.

Although, I don't think the point of Christianity is believing that God created humans. I think that (for me, at least) the main idea behind Christianity is that you have this God who loves you, and saw that there was evil in the world, so he sent Jesus who is God in human form to be a sacrifice for our sins. Now... the real thing is (and I know you're not there yet) Jesus really lead a good life. Even if you don't believe the he's God, I think everyone could learn a great lesson from him about how to treat others and live good lives.

Although, most Christians will argue that you have to believe in God to achieve that... but we all know that people can lead good lives without believing in God. The faith in God is the only way to heaven, though. So... in case you're worried about what happens to you after you die, that may determine a person's faith.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you are just a bit confused in your definitions. There is a great difference in evolving and adapting. Just because a colder climate people may have more body hair or a finch from galapagos has a harder beak, does not prove evolution. They sipmly adapted to their surroundings

[wolfpurplemoon]

Sure, those two pieces of evidence in isolation don't prove evolution, but they are just a small part of the amazing wealth of evidence that together proves evolution conclusively. Oh, and as adaptation is one of many evolutionary processes, it doesn't make much sense saying there is a great difference between evolution and adaptation.

Re:

[(Anonymous)]

Adaptation is the only evolutionary process that actually exists.

[k2rider78.livejournal.com]

That is why I never took the Bible literally word for word or my head would have exploded and not only at the inconsistencies but the misogyny,homophobia, bigotry and hatred can drive crazy too.

Re:

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I'm glad Darwin wasn't as bigoted and racist as the bible. Oh, wait, he was the one who said darker skinned folks hadn't 'evolved' fully.

The differences between the bible and Darwin are obvious.

[k2rider78.livejournal.com]

One a book some people claim is the word of god & these (hopefully) few and misguided people wish to impose on other human beings.

The other a fallible man seeking scientific knowledge, no dogma there.

I don't appreciate how you are trying to hijack a conversation for your own agenda & anonymously at that.

Why don't you try to see other view points instead of flaming in threads?
And in case you don't know what I mean by flamer. The slang term I am referring from the urban dictionary:

2. A person who deliberately makes inflammitory or slanderous posts on internet message boards for the purpose of starting a flame war.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Flamer

[crossbow1.livejournal.com]

Everyone dies so enjoy life while you can, as noone knows when their time is up, once you're gone that is it.

What, no Great Reward? No meek inheriting the earth? What a gyp.

[(Anonymous)]

I think he is saying not to take yourself so seriously because ultimately God is in control. Live your life and enjoy it, but realize that when you die most of what you work so hard for is lost or forgotten.

And I think his conclusion is based on his beliefs and not really on anything he has written about in the book. I don't think his purpose is to convince you of his conclusion or to defend it. He is simply offering his personal conclusion on life.

-Rachel