Romans 14-16

[wolfpurplemoon]

Vegetarians and meat-eaters should get along and not judge each other because God will judge us all.

Paul takes his leave of Rome and plans to head back to Jerusalem, handing over to a variety of men and women who have helped him and warning the converts to avoid people who may disagree with them (don't want to be hearing any differing opinions while still establishing your new religion).

Comments

Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[(Anonymous)]

There was a dispute inside the church between Jewish people and people that weren't Jewish about acceptable behavior.

Paul is radically redefining it for both.

He is teaching that it is more important to get along and focus on the things to which we all agree than it is to be right, sometimes.

This should be looked at as the teaching of tolerance.

In todays terms the debate may be about homosexuals.

On one hand you will have people citing scripture saying that the law says it's an abomination and even using Paul himself to say it's condemned behavior.

On the other hand you have people who love God and love others clearly trying to live a right and moral life before God saying that they are right with God and that Paul and Leviticus are being twisted into something more than they were intended.

Romans 14 here suggests that as believers they should be accepted and not Judged if it is "disputable".

Most Christians and non-christians may think Romans 14 is about pork...but they would miss a very profound and valuable lesson here.

That being two fold:
1. It's not good to judge.
2. It's not good to create stumbling blocks.

Paul tells us Jesus will resolve ALL disputes in due time and that each of us will be accountable for our own actions.

So in a very real sense the debate over homosexuality should be is the statement "Gay people will go to hell" disputable.

Which is why many Gay people will point to the studies and evidence that suggest being Gay is a natural and real experience that some people have and it is not a choice.

If their argument is true we can safely say that the statement is disputable because God does not create people doomed to hell.

If it can be proven that it is not biological but a choice of a deviant lifestyle then the statement holds and ~600 million people on this Earth will be going to hell for choosing that life.

Personally, I am going to side with research and peoples word and if I am wrong then they will still answer to Jesus.

May God bless everyone who wants his blessings and love!

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[liedownlovely.livejournal.com]

Jesus fucking christ. Can you get any more patronizing? Seriously? How do you live your life talking to people this way? Do you really believe you're a messenger of Jesus' love?

There are so many things wrong with this comment. But you make me so angry I don't even care to try and be rational with you and pick you apart. That doesn't make you "right". In fact, all you and I both have is conjecture about any 'god-given' laws, as he hasn't come down from heaven recently enough to set us straight.

So. Since you're convinced your bigoted, asshole opinion is right, I'm just going to go ahead and call you a bigoted asshole and say I'm right. There have been a lot of comments on here that scream self-righteous, but yours is the worst I've seen so far. You are a bad Christian, and you should feel bad. But you won't. Ever. You'll just continue to sit in your nice cushioned church pews every Sunday and look down your nose at the "sexual deviant" gay people and make their lives difficult and their love invalid just because the concept offends you.

I hope someday there are Christian hate-crimes. Where Christians get to experience being beat outside their homes, unable to marry, unable to express love in public, are raped to be "corrected" of their lifestyle, where their parents disown them, bosses fire them, and they're not able to spend their last minutes of life with their partners or priests because hospital staff are composed of angry, bigoted homosexuals who refuse basic rights to Christians.

I hope you feel good about yourself.

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[princessellie0.livejournal.com]

there is a day that we as christaian will be beat and murdared for a beliefe in God. But it is not our place as christians to say who will go to hell for we are not God so i am with you on that. He says that we shall not judge one another, that is his job, what you do and how you live your life is your choice and to hate someone who lives their life differnt than what you would chose makes you wrong, we are to love one another as we love our selves, no where in the Bible does it say hate the homosexuals and treat them like crap. How are people suposet to believe in God and that God is love when all we show is hate? it is our job to let God shine threw us and show the world they way to him. God has not darkness in him, he is light and he is love no matter what life you chose weather you love him or not he loves you and all that you are.

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[liedownlovely.livejournal.com]

Thank you, very much. It's god's place to judge who goes where, you are right. Christians who do it for him make me unreasonably angry. I don't see how a Christian like the anonymous commenter above could go to heaven with so much hatred while non-believers who are filled with love have to go to hell. If the people who are going to heaven are all bigoted jerks, I would rather go to hell, myself.

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[zen-says.livejournal.com]

love that one, I tell the truth, beware those that teaches the contrary, does anyone actually questions WHY ONLY PAUL TEACHES THE TRUTH?,,,,,,,

did paul actually targeting the teachings of peter and james?

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[hypatiaslore.livejournal.com]

He's probably just following the Bible. After all it was Paul that said,

1 Corinthians 6:2
Is it not certain that the saints will be the judges of the world? if then the world will be judged by you, are you unable to give a decision about the smallest things?
3 Is it not certain that we are to be the judges of angels? how much more then of the things of this life?

So, he may, in fact, think he has every right to judge the people around him. (Or her)

Don't ever be misled to believe that the Bible doesn't back up the bigotry, hatred and intolerance that Christianity seems to have, in spite of the constant assertions by it's followers that Jesus was the Prince of Peace. In fact, he himself stated quite clearly otherwise:

"34“Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword.

35‘I have come to set a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
36Your enemies will be right in your own household!’l
37“If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. 38If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine." (Matt 10:34-38)

I'm really not being snarky, but deadly serious when I say, they really are just doing what they are told. So. Take it for what it's worth.

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[liedownlovely.livejournal.com]

Trust me, I wish you were being snarky. Sadly, I grew up in Jesus Camp (a wonderful documentary that's available on Youtube I highly recommend every one watch), so I know all too well what you mean.

I still choose to get angry. For my health, it's actually better than being passive.

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[(Anonymous)]

As a believer I will respond the instruction in the verses you quoted. Yes, we are to judge, not people (remember, juge not lest you should be judged) but theological truth from error. We are to pray for the wisdom of God to be able to recognize truth from error and we need to stay in truth as believers, not judge unbelievers' choices ("choose this day who you will serve..as to me in my house I will serve the Lord). When Jesus said that he did not come to bring peace but a sword..he was referring to the fact that his teachings and ideas will cause division among people(this journal is an example of that). Jesus spend a lot of time with the outcast of society. He loved all and thought all deserved love. His teaching is was people dislike and because we are his followers, we too are disliked for our belief. Christians are not to angry or judgmental. We are instructed to turn the other cheek and not repay evil for evil. There are many who claim to be Christians but do not live up to the teaching. Let's pray for them. May the Holy Spirit reveal their misunderstanding and may they draw closer to Love. Peace and love to you.


Peace.

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[(Anonymous)]

I really don't see where your attitude in that post is any less judgemental and offensive. Is your opinion better and your posts ok simply because you are offended by someone who calls him/herself a christian?

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[liedownlovely.livejournal.com]

1) I don't subscribe to a belief system that says "love thy neighbor as thyself" that I'm failing to follow, like said Christian is above by loathing homosexuals.

2) If said Christian can say horrible things in the name of Jesus freely, I can state my angry opinion of their behavior freely.

3) The behavior of Christians reflects against their god and religion. Meaning what I see here is "God Hates Fags". Which equals, god hates, even though I know he doesn't because the bible says so.

4) My post is just as fucking offensive and judgmental as the one I commented on. I don't have to take any kind of 'higher moral ground' by being less so.

5) If freedom of speech means bigoted assholes can try to dictate what happens in the lives of my gay friends/family, then I'm free to be angry knowing partners of twelve years in my life can't marry because there are loudmouth assholes like that commenter who think it's god's will to try and butt in and tear apart lives in the name of Jesus. And I'm going to spend two minutes of my time reminding them just how many people have died rather than live because of their actions of hate.

6) There are Christian commenters I respect a lot, such as zteccc, who sadly hasn't commented in a month or so. So no, it's not just because someone is a Christian. It just depends on what comes out of their mouth.

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[(Anonymous)]

Sadly, people judge all Christians by the actions of a few. First I have to say that believing that someone will not inherit the kindgom of God due to a particular reason should not mean very much to those who do not believe the same. There are faiths that say that I as a Christian will go to hell...I am not upset. That is what they believe they have the right to believe what they want. We should stand up for the rights of others. If you feel that someone's rights as a citizen are affected by the belief of a group; then by all means vote, be a voice for that cause. There should not be any violence involved. Nowhere in the New Testament is there instruction to harm anyone at all. Quite the contrary Jesus taught us to be "harmless as doves" Mathew 10:16. There are many Christians who fail the teachings of Jesus, and like you stated give a negative and wrong impression of the God we serve (the Bible says we bring a bad name to our God). We who call ourselves Christians have to be humble enough to realize we can fail at any time (also stated in the Bible), so daily ask God for His Holy Spirit so that we can walk the walk of love and not become cold and sanctimonious (work of the flesh). Christians need to be put under a microscope (the Bible says that judgment comes first to those who claim to know the word of God) and am grateful for you and others who do just that for people of my faith. You mentioned that you grew up in "Jesus Camp" and inferred your experience was quite negative. Please know that I am saddened by the pain anyone feels especially at the hand of "Christians". I have felt so much hate and pain from atheist myself..but good news is that forgivness and love has healed my heart. I am not angry now, by the power of God's unconditional love and his instruction to forgive (or I would not be forgiven by Him) I am free from resentement and do not project my experience on all athiest. I have come to realize that that everyone fails their own standard of goodness (including myself). God has given me the power to extend grace because I myself need it. Please recieve my agape and may peace be with you.

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[(Anonymous)]

"I hope someday there are Christian hate-crimes. Where Christians get to experience being beat outside their homes, unable to marry, unable to express love in public, are raped to be "corrected" of their lifestyle, where their parents disown them, bosses fire them,..."

You "hope" for something that already exists. One has to wonder why anyone would "hope" these things. Christian or not, common ground is found in our humanity. Do you hope for a homosexual crusade of sorts? The same sort that the "Christians" and "Muslims" engaged in?

-Josh

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[liedownlovely.livejournal.com]

I hope that the self-righteous who think themselves better than homosexuals experience a little humbling and understanding. I have yet to see, in America and other western countries, a Christian beat to death with a tire iron for walking out of a church.

And a homosexual crusade would be filled with rainbows and ribbons, unlike religious crusades which enjoy bloodshed and conquering. Despite what people believe, the "gay agenda" is just having equal rights as a heterosexual, not taking over the world.

Re: Your take is pretty far off from what is said.

[(Anonymous)]

If you pay attention to what Anonymous is saying, he/she is actually standing up the gay community. I think that this person has been horribly misunderstood.

[princessellie0.livejournal.com]

it is true, there are alot of christains who do not know how to love and no one is perfect. The only way to heaven is threw Jesus and he forgives us of our sins. It is hard to love someone who is not perfect, that is why so many merages fail, because we as people have a hard time learning how to truley love. Love is unconditional.

Good on ya

[(Anonymous)]

I just wanted to note that I think it is great that you are taking on the challenge/opportunity to read through the Bible in a year. There are a lot, and i mean a lot, of Christians who have never done this, so good on ya. I believe that God is bigger than any of us and that this simple act will enrich your life immeasurably. Thanks for your honesty in your posts.

Ian (I hate anonymous posts, I just don't have an account w livejournal yet, will do so today!)