Isaiah 1-4

[wolfpurplemoon]

Apparently this book is the vision of a guy called Isaiah, I'm guessing he's a prophet?

God is back and he's pissed with his people for turning away from him. And he doesn't want those animal sacrifices any more that were apparently so very important in Leviticus. Make up your mind!

The holy land will one day be the place that the people of the world will stream to for moral instruction and it will inspire peace amongst all people, I think we're still waiting for that one. But also all the people who don't follow the lord will face his dreadful and terrifying judgement, again, doesn't seem to be happening.

2:22 says we shouldn't trust humans or give them special consideration, so get lock yourself in your underground bunker and see how long you manage without trusting or relying on a single other human being.

God is going to leave the people of Judah and Jerusalem to their fate, and lots of nasty things will happen to them when he does.

Those who remain after all these horrible events will be holy (survival of the fittest?) and will get to live under that mystical cloud that hangs around the mountain and glows at night. They will also be protected from the rain and heat by a tent.

Comments

[kirchdaddy.blogspot.com (from livejournal.com)]

I've been reading your entries (and am still trying to get caught up), and I have to say that I love what you're doing. It's great to see someone take the time to read the full body of scripture of a religion that they don't even subscribe to. I've been challenged by your commitment (as a Christian, I haven't even read every verse of the Bible) and I’ve been challenged to make sure that I know not only what I believe but why I believe it. Thank you for that inspiration. I've wanted to comment on almost every post of yours, but to be honest none has struck more of a chord with me than this one on Isaiah. I can stand to read all of the debates that have gone on to this point, but I can't read on and not comment on all of the different statements that have been made (mostly by other people) about God just being an angry, vengeful God. That said, I offer no judgment or condescension toward you. I merely offer my own observations of Isaiah 1.

The tone of this first chapter is sad, almost pitying. Can you hear it? Isaiah is bringing a message from God, and God sounds like He's been watching all of this destruction go on and He regrets that it has happened. He mourns that Israel had become so rebellious that punishment had to occur. I see the same thing in my own life when I have to discipline my daughter. She continues doing something bad, even after I have told her no repeatedly and warned her that she will get a spanking if she doesn't stop - she still does it. She still rebels. And no I don't take delight in causing her pain. But what kind of parent am I if I don't ever discipline her? What kind of parent am I if I don't ever punish her for bad behavior (just as I would reward her for good behavior)? Does discipline mean that I don't love her anymore? No, not by any stretch of the imagination. But, imagine a world where parents didn't discipline their children. It would be full of snot-nosed, personally irresponsible brats. There would be scores of people running around doing whatever they wanted because no one ever took the time to teach them right from wrong and to expect right rather than wrong. It would be chaos.

Notice verse 1:5 – “Why will you still be struck down? Why will you continue to rebel?” That's not a mad God. That's a disappointed God. It is vastly different in my book.

Notice also 1:9 – “If the Lord of hosts had not left us a few survivors, we should have been like Sodom, and become like Gomorrah.” He might be disappointed, or even upset, but not so much so that He is willing to obliterate this nation of people. They haven't gone as far as Sodom and Gomorrah did. There is still a remnant who are faithful and so, while God still needs to discipline them, He loves them just the same. He still values their learning of the difference between right and wrong. He still seeks their redemption.

I think God says He doesn't want sacrifices anymore because of how they were being offered. Did you catch 1:13? “Bring no more vain offerings.” God doesn't want them anymore because the people aren't offering them in repentance for their sins. They are being vain about it. That's not the reason for the sacrifices in the first place. And did you see what God told them to do instead? Verses 16 and 17 say, “cease to do evil, learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.” Regardless of whether you believe in God or not, that's a lofty goal for anyone to have.

And verse 18? Not only does God give the people an alternative to the sacrifices, but He STILL offers redemption. He says “though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow”! Even though they have rebelled, even though they have disobeyed, even in spite of everything – God still wants to redeem His people. That speaks not to an angry, pissed off, vengeful, spiteful, etc. God, but a loving, still-going-to-discipline-His-children, redeeming God.

[kirchdaddy.blogspot.com (from livejournal.com)]

That's the thing that I love more than anything about God. No matter how bad I am, no matter how many times I screw up, no matter how often I turn my back on Him - He's still there. He most definitely disciplines, He most assuredly is disappointed by my actions, but He still loves me just the same. He still offers redemption to me to save me from my sins, to save me from myself.

I hope you begin to see that as you continue your journey through the Bible. I hope people can still be loving toward you. There have definitely been some poor examples of Christians on here spouting judgment and condemning you, and I apologize for them. We’re not all like that. And know that as I read your entries each day, I'm praying for you. Not to become a Christian, though I would love to see that happen. I'm praying that above anything else, you see Truth.

[wolfpurplemoon]

Thankyou for politely offering your perspective, as I've never been taught about the bible I probably lack wider knowledge and context so my interpretation is just that, so hearing what particular verses mean to believers is helpful.

I will gladly read any comments you feel moved to leave me in the future, thanks for taking an interest in my little project.

[kirchdaddy.blogspot.com (from livejournal.com)]

None taken. I've wondered on occasion what could be the reason for such harsh punishment, though I don't suppose 'genocide' is the best description for it. To be quite honest, because I truly believe that God is powerful enough to have created the entire cosmos, I believe that He also has the power to do as He sees fit - it's His creation anyway. Maybe there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for why the punishment of the Israelites was so harsh. My guess is this: if the standard is perfection (far above my own expectations for my daughter), and the punishment is death, then God is just following through on His word.

I don't profess to have all of the answers. But to me, what I value almost as much as the salvation God offers, is the trustworthiness He demonstrates. I can trust that even though I don't know it all, He does. Even though I don't understand why things happen the way that they do, He does.

You might think my response is just a cop out, but to me it's a natural response to believing in a God who knows the answers already. Just because He doesn't share them with me doesn't make Him any less powerful, it means I must trust Him more. Think of it like this: if you go skydiving, one of the things you must do is trust the instructor. He/she may not tell you every minute detail about why you must trust them. You just do. Because they know better than you. In fact, not knowing all the answers actually leads you to trust the instructor more because you can't do it all on your own. To me, it's the same with God. Not knowing all the answers to life's mysteries leads me to trust Him more because I can't do it all on my own.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel like I'm being slightly misunderstood, but that's okay. I appreciate your comments and value your opinion, especially considering that it is different from mine. I think we can learn a lot from one another, regardless of belief, because ultimately we'll all discover the truth.

awsome

[(Anonymous)]

All I can say is praise God. I love watching this unfold. Its like a wierd. Soap opera of sorts. Its like a trust God experiment for the believers. Lol your alright man. I always tell people, if you gotta problem go to the
Source. I just love that you are. Good for you. That shows great courage and that you actually value your own beliefd to dig deeper and determine why you do or do not believe something. Unlike most who just believe what
They believe cuz its what they always believed.

Your mission

[(Anonymous)]

Dear friend(atheist). I risk sounding judgemental/ superior, but understand so well. I have been an atheist. I stubbornly wanted empirical proof that God exists and failed to understand how there can be so much hurt and pain in this life, when there is supposedly a loving God. I found some of the answers in the characteristics of God, you see, he will not impress on you to accept Him, but once you have, he means business with you and takes the relationship which you have with him serious, a bit like a jealous husband/ an over protective father would, Only his jealousy is not negative, but because he knows best an does not want for his bride to get hurt and be unfaithful, because he desires a perfect relationship with her, he will do everything to get you to chose the right path.

I pray that God may reveal his grace and love to you in the same way he has for me, by keeping me sane, hopeful and giving me the peace that transcends all understanding amidst the hell which my life had been the last two years(losing a child, losing a job as a result of standing up against corrupt business deals, wife in a same s-x affair, impending divorce etc) of my life(the result of my own imperfect choices). In essence, if it was not for God and the people he sent my way, conveying love, support and whatever I needed, whenever I needed it, and in response to my prayers, I would not be writing this.

God is good, all the time. Imagine trying to get an unfaithful spouse whom you love dearly to see the love that you have for him/her, but only to be turned down at every occasion, to be cheated and humiliated and ridiculed, sure enough you would punish him/her, if divorce was not an option. You would surely cut off the love, take away the allowance, and even have them locked up for crimes committed if it would "shock" them to realise the pain and suffering which they are causing themself, your kids and you and try to save them and your kids from the senseless life of a broken family etc.

Would you send your own son to die to save this unfaithful spouse? I certainly would not, but God did.

I cannot prove God's existence through science or in any tangible way, but my God is more real to me than anything in this world. If you trust God and develop"blind" faith in Him. He fills your heart, life and whole existence with a sense of purpose, peace and love that is unfathomable. This is so real that people around you would sense that in a very real way. You will also develop a positive and hopeful attitude to life.

It may sound way-out, I know, but it is REAL. No drug, exercise, business success, s-x or relationship can fill the void in you in this way or provide you and everyone around you with such a sense of peace. Only God and the Holy Spirit can.

Give it a try. All you need to do is to close your eyes and ask him to take over. He will not disappoint you and will engage with you in a way that you can understand and sense him. But you need to ask for it and mean it. Romans 10:11. Numbers 23:19. Jer 29:11-13. John 14:12-21.

I hope you are not offended by my direct approach, but there is unfortunately no better thing anyone can do for you.

Re: Your mission

[wolfpurplemoon]

I applaud your personal strength and am thankful you had people who helped you through what sound like an unimaginable series of ordeals. I just don't understand how any of that leads to a belief that there is a God who is running everything and deserves praise, or why he should be given the credit for your own strength and that of the people you say assisted you through that painful time.

I really don't have a void that needs filling, I can assure you that my worldview is not in need of God to shore it up and I am perfectly at peace with knowing that random awful events happen with no reason. That fact is far more comforting than believing there is a higher power controlling it all like some kind of sadistic chess master.

Re: Your mission

[hypatiaslore.livejournal.com]

Did you know that you would be proselytized to so often when you began here and so anonymously when you began? You're not even at the New Testament yet! LOL

Re: Your mission

[wolfpurplemoon]

I wasn't sure what to expect when I started. But reading the bible in combination with the proselytizing has just made my lack of belief more secure, which I don't think is their intent when they comment.

Re: Your mission

[hypatiaslore.livejournal.com]

I'm just wondering where they're all coming from and why they're posting anonymously? I get it if they don't have LiveJournal accounts, but if they don't, how did they find out about your project? I didn't think LiveJournal was all that big of a thing. LOL

I never know what people expect when they proselytize. Like, when you're teaching someone something, its a whole different approach, because there's no "faith" involved. You know what you're teaching and you can prove it, you can reason it. If they don't "believe" you, you either didn't explain it well, or they are not willing to learn the subject material for whatever reason. But with something that requires you to believe something that has no evidence or proof it's a much different animal.

First, I have to accept that this alien thing exists, I have to figure out which interpretation of its will to obey, I can't disagree with it's politics, I can't disagree with it's instructions, I have to raise my children the way it tells me to, and make sure they follow it also, even if I don't agree with it, I have to give part of my money to it, I have to substitute it's judgment for my own, even though I've never had a conversation out right with the thing and I can only guess that at some future time. Then, hopefully, if I do all the things I'm supposing will make it happy, even if I'm uncertain the entire time, and I have no way of getting even the slightest verification one way or another, after I die, I will still get no free will or choice as to how I will get to spend all of eternity; in fact, the opposite. What will happen is I will get to be completely subservient to it, my individuality will get stripped away to the point where all of my inclinations toward objecting to it, or to any behavior that was against this beings directives (which at this point will be made perfectly clear), and I will now be a mindless, blissful servant, exalting this being unto infinite time as it really won't exist at that point in any meaningful way; I don't have any way of working with that.

I think if it were any other area of people's lives they would have trouble accepting it either. But for some reason where death is concerned, they'd rather hand over the keys to their will, just so that someone will take that fear away. It's like, if there were a god, and he gave me a brain, why would he then tell me to shut it off as soon as I got it? Is free will just a temptation to ignore? *shrug* If that's the case? I'm good. I see why Eve wanted to get the hell out of there. ;oP


"Give me the storm and stress of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge."

-- Robert Green Ingersoll

Re: Your mission

[wolfpurplemoon]

I have actually been linking to these posts from a bible reading website that also provides my reading plan, and I'm autoposting to Twitter too, so that's where they are mostly coming from. I'm just impressed that quite a few have actually made LJs to comment here!

I think you've articulated the basic problem with religion there, and it's such big one that I can't understand how anyone ever gets over it. I think that the bottom line is that when you've accepted that nothing that makes up your personality and character will survive the death of your brain, and that there's no need to invoke a higher power to explain the origins of the universe or life on Earth, then religion just becomes totally meaningless apart from the fact that it manages to remains a major influence in world affairs.