Ezekiel 13-15

[wolfpurplemoon]

That's a clumsy translation: "prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying." While it is clear enough what is meant, I always try very hard to not use the same word so many times in one sentence.

Ezekiel's book is another one that is greatly concerned with those 'false' prophets who don't go round saying they're all doomed, probably because the ones that say nice things are going to happen are far more popular than God's 'real' prophets.

God doesn't like the women who make magic bands for their wrists and heads to 'trap human souls', does this mean that God thinks these magic bands are actually working? Because then perhaps there's a legitimate concern, but if they don't work (as is more likely) then why worry about them.

Ah ha, how to get a personal answer from God, worship idols and then go ask one of God's prophets for a favour from God. God will talk to you personally then, in order to punish you and the prophet you went to.

God declares that noone will survive when he decides to send a plague, famine, war or a wild animal attack on a city (burning all the people is another punishment he'd like to send them).

Comments

[zen-says.livejournal.com]

hi, wolf...

it's been more than 20 years since i read the bible from cover o cover. been looking the bible from a different angle for the past few years.

do allow me to accompany this journey with you, with you taking the lead.

in this 3 chapters, i wonder how jeremiah was discovered and set apart from other "false" prophets by th jews? I don't think his forehead is tattooed YHWH's prophet.

also you would wonder why God gave so many warnings and yet kept the race?

cheers

you would wonder why God gave so many warnings and yet kept the race?

[murray (from livejournal.com)]

One reason God kept the race is because out of this race came the savior: Jesus Christ. Jesus was born a Jew and a descendant of King David. Matthew 1 has the full geneology starting with Abraham.
The Old Testament, or "Old Covenant" can be a hard pill to swallow, but you guys are in for a treat when you start the New Testament, or "New Covenant." The first few books are eyewitness accounts of the life and works of Jesus. He paid the price for all our sins, so no more "burning" or "punishment" for those who choose to believe in Him.

Re: you would wonder why God gave so many warnings and yet kept the race?

[wolfpurplemoon]

OK, here's a question for you, how can Jesus be a descendent of King David if he is the son of God and a virgin? (Assuming the lineage is supposed to be through his mother's husband)

Re: you would wonder why God gave so many warnings and yet kept the race?

[murray (from livejournal.com)]

That's a good question. At that time it was the custom for Jews to marry within their family line. Mary herself was a descendant of David (http://tinyurl.com/6chj58). As for Joseph he had made up his mind to leave Mary when he found out she was pregnant. After an angel appeared to him in a dream, though, he decided to go through with the marriage and raise the child as his own, as a Jew and with his family name (Matthew 1:19-21.) It was more a matter of legality or public record than of human lineage. I'm sure there is some analogy in there of how God adopts us as children through His son Jesus.

[wolfpurplemoon]

I've been told by one believer that the true prophets were shown to be so because their prophesies came true, but I'm sure that all the so called prophets would have been right some of the time and probably wrong a lot of the time and it would be easy to credit just one prophet (at a time) with all the correct prophecies and not record their mistakes.

It's like a psychic who claims to be talking to dead relatives, the audience is very good at remembering the few positive hits the psychic plucks out of thin air and forgetting that most of his statements were wild generalisations that he twisted to fit when someone started volunteering information. I feel it is the same with the prophets talking to God.

God does threaten to destroy the people of Israel time and time again, but as religion is often about controlling people, this would've be a way for the leaders to keep control by pointing at various disasters that have befallen them and threatening more if they keep up their bad behaviour. So then future disasters are blamed on the people not satisfying God but many survive each famine, drought, or war because these events aren't actually as terrible as the threats made them out to be. Also, in that part of the world you're probably going to be right most of the time that a famine or war is coming up soon, which takes us back to the truth of the prophets.

[zteccc.livejournal.com]

A measure of prophets was whether or not they spoke about the covenant and following God. There were, throughout the history of Israel/Judah, "prophets" who would talk about a bright future with no strings attached. This isn't surprising because this is what "prophets" in other neighboring nations would do. The real prophets of God, however, always stated that any positive outcome would come only from following God and from returning to the covenant.
Another measure would be the accuracy of their prophecies. Typically a prophet would have some prophecies that could be measured within their lifetimes, that would support their message and would lend credence to the longer term prophecies. There are really two explanations for the accuracy of the prophets quoted in The Bible. One is that they were God inspired, prophesied correctly because of that, and were remembered and their writings canonized. The second is that these books are a conglomeration of good guesses from many people under one name. The problem with the second line of reasoning is that it would be known. Someone would point out something like "Ezekiel didn't say that, it was Jesse over there who said that." Covering these things up would would indicate a pretty big conspiracy, and conspiracies of this magnitude wouldn't stand the test of time. Sooner or later, a future prophecy (something that wouldn't happen for a generation or more later) would fail, proving that the prophet wasn't right, but that hasn't happened. Prophecies by God's prophets tend to be precise and accurate even when predicting events that will occur hundreds of years later, far beyond the ability of any conspiracy to cover up an error. Further, prophets were never from the church leadership. If, as is suggested, the church leaders wanted to control people, they would have wanted to establish a "prophet" who was on their side, however the history shows that the prophets often came against the church leaders who weren't following the covenant.

God has Ezekiel speak against the charlatans who use "magic" to swindle people. They claim to know the future and have power through their "magic" charms. They are simply causing people who should be turning to God and the covenant, to instead turn to more idolatry because the so-called magic is simply another form of idolatry.

People then, just as now, would turn to God when things got really bad. Just as today, we hear people pray "God, if you will just get me out of my problems, I'll ...". Back then, the people, who lived a life violating the covenant and ignoring and disobeying God, would turn to a prophet when things got really bad hoping they'd hear a message saying that everything would be ok. God tells Ezekiel that this tactic simply isn't going to work.

God gives examples of how a few righteous people will not save a large group from Judgment. Instead, those righteous few will be spared and the sinners will still have the consequences of their actions according to the covenant.