Luke 2-3

[wolfpurplemoon]

Luke seems to be where the Christmas story I learnt in school comes from, we have the Most Ridiculous Census Ever (seriously, you do not make everyone travel back to their home town 90 miles away to register for a census!), and Mary has to put her new baby in a manger because there is no place left in this little village with all the people who'd been born there and moved away popping home for the census.

Also some shepherds abandon their sheep after a vast heavenly army of angels appeared and told them about the baby. We don't normally get taught about Mary and Joseph sacrificing birds when they presented Jesus at the temple.

So, if you were Simeon and you'd been told that you wouldn't die until you'd seen Christ, would you go and seek out an audience with Jesus or avoid all contact and hope to live forever?

The 12 year old Jesus stays behind to chat to the teachers in the temple court, worrying his parents but amazing everyone else with his understanding.

John the Baptist is paving the way for Jesus with his preaching, though it gets him in trouble with Herod and he is imprisoned.

And then Luke lists Jesus' lineage through Joseph who isn't his father (and apparently there are several differences between this one that the one in Matthew).

Comments

[fatpie42.livejournal.com]

It seems there are more reliable records of the Quirinius census than there were of Jesus' life and modern historians have discovered that it didn't take place in the area Jesus' family are supposed to have lived in anyway.

Also, it wouldn't have involved people travelling away from their home. Especially not to the home of an ancient ancestor several centuries into the past.

We don't normally get taught about Mary and Joseph sacrificing birds when they presented Jesus at the temple.

If Matthew's account is right, they should be in Egypt at that point in time. (Either that or it was a really quick "hide out in Egypt". More like a quick holiday to overcome the stress of your child's life being at stake before popping back as if nothing ever happened.)

The 12 year old Jesus stays behind to chat to the teachers in the temple court, worrying his parents but amazing everyone else with his understanding.

Am I the only one who thinks there's something really mean about Jesus going "you're not my daddy!" to Joseph?

And then Luke lists Jesus' lineage through Joseph who isn't his father (and apparently there are several differences between this one that the one in Matthew).

Yeah, I can't be bothered to check right now, but doesn't it match him all the way back to Abraham? Or possibly back to Adam? Remind me why anyone laughs at James Ussher....?

[bonsaye.livejournal.com]

Well, they didn't necessarily leave for Egypt with a newborn baby. Matthew says that they were living in a house in Bethlehem when the magi came to visit Jesus, so all those census people had cleared out enough for them to find some more permanent lodging than a stable.

It could have been anytime during Jesus's first two years, really. That seems to be the age that the magi and King Herod decided upon based on when the star first appeared.

The trip to the temple? Jesus is 40 days old here, if they did it right according to the Jewish law (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=leviticus%2012&version=NIV). 40 days of purification for a boy baby, and 73 days for a baby girl. (I know, it's not fair.)

I'm thinking they got back from the temple and went house-hunting. Then the magi came, then they fled to Egypt, then they came back and lived in Nazareth.

[bonsaye.livejournal.com]

Although it doesn't say so anywhere outright in the Bible, there is a strong oral tradition that the lineage in Matthew is Joseph's and that the lineage in Luke is Mary's. "...There was no word for father-in-law, just as there was no word for grandfather. Joseph can’t be the son of both Jacob and Heli. According to the Jerusalem Talmud (Chag. 77,4), Heli was actually Mary’s father making him Joseph’s father-in-law. The reason the two genealogies are different is that Joseph was descended from Solomon while Mary was a descendant of Solomon’s older brother Nathan." One explanation (http://bible.org/question/mary%E2%80%99s-lineage-one-gospels). Another explanation (http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/are-josephs-and-marys-lineage-incorrect/).

[zen-says.livejournal.com]

love bonsaye explanation. just feel like he was explaining the creation. there was the one day snd night thingy but the sun and the moon was created on yhe 3rd or 4th day.

why don"t somebody admit that there was a discrepancy and matthew or luke made a mistake?

why blame yhe readers for not understanding and not blaming the authors for not making a better research. we can firgive luke for mistskes because he was not born in that time and gollowed jesus. he based his "research" purely on hearsay

[zteccc.livejournal.com]

Chapter 2
Verses 1-2 The census is likely an error in fact. Specifically, although there were censuses of the Roman people under Augustus, and it is even possible that Judea had a census at approximately the right time (Herod the Great was out of favor with the Romans, and they could have imposed a census on Judea), it is still unlikely that the census occurred as it was written.

Luke, most likely interviewed people who knew Jesus, for much of the detail in his work. From his own words, he gathered stories from accounts passed on from eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Luke didn't directly know Jesus and although he likely knew some of the apostles, he probably gathered some information, such as the setting of the birth story, from whatever anecdotal information they had available.

Luke writes this anywhere from 40 to 80 years after the birth of Jesus. There was no Wikipedia, computerized records, no libraries to speak of, etc. If someone knew that Jesus was born in approximately 4AD, and someone else remembered that there was a census around that time (6AD), it isn't unreasonable for the stories to get mixed. Ask anyone today about what happened at the beginning of the Great Depression and you'll get any number of stories, most with the wrong dates, settings, etc.

Verses 3-7 Joseph, for whatever reason, traveled to Bethlehem. Mary traveled with him. Today we would not allow a person to travel when they were 8 months pregnant (it likely took a month to travel at a slow pace from Nazareth to Bethlehem), but even as little as 40 years ago, people would travel right up to the week their child was due. 2,000 years ago, people simply didn't stop their lives for childbirth, especially if they were not wealthy. People were hardier, but also, Joseph wouldn't have wanted to be separated from his wife when the child was born (and he would have had responsibilities to have the child circumcised which he wouldn't have been able to do at the right time if he were gone for too long).

One more note on the census. As we have seen, identity with one of the twelve tribes in Israel was a big deal to the Jews, and they didn't have computers or sophisticated record keeping. For someone to be counted as from a certain group, they would likely have to be physically with that group to register for the count. It would have been a record keeping nightmare to keep track of the statistics of varied people's backgrounds from each province in order to get an accurate count of representatives from each tribe. Much easier (in the eyes of an empire) to move the people than to try to keep track of the numbers via paperwork.

Verses 8-21 Again we see the common reaction to angels. The shepherds and Mary and Joseph are all showing obedience to the orders given by angels, the shepherds by going to see and give praise, Joseph and Mary by naming their child Jesus (instead of Joseph after his father which would have been traditional).

Verses 22-24 Joseph and Mary show their obedience to the Law of Moses. The Law required a sacrifice for Mary's purification, and a second as a sin offering. Joseph and Mary must have been somewhat poor or they would have sacrificed a lamb and a dove instead of two doves.

verses 25-35 Simeon is also obedient. He is directed by the Holy Spirit, and thus goes to the temple. Simeon, like many others, knew the foolishness of disobeying God.

Verses 41-51 Joseph and Mary are very pious to go to Jerusalem yearly. Many people did so, but many others did not.

Jesus, at twelve, has an educated discussion with the teachers of the Law. A twelve year old is not a man in Jewish tradition (bar mitzvah is typically at thirteen). Typically when a child was thirteen and had become a bar mitzvah, a rabbi might recruit them for education. Jesus was having a discussion with such educated people prior to an age where he would have received any formal instruction. Further, Jesus is answering questions which would suggest that they respected his discussion enough to challenge him and were amazed at his answers suggesting that he was giving answers that they didn't know.

Jesus says that they should have known he'd have been in his "Father's house" declaring that he is the son of God.

[zteccc.livejournal.com]

Chapter 3
Verses 1-8 John the Baptist begins his ministry with his message of repentance. He makes it clear that being born a Jew doesn't guarantee any special treatment, in the same way, being part of any group doesn't. John is saying that the decisions we make are important.

Verses 9-20
John teaches compassion for our fellow man and honest dealings with each other.

John declares that he is not the Christ (Messiah, Anointed one), but that he is coming.

John runs afoul of Herod after rebuking Herod's marriage to his brother's wife (his brother was still alive at the time, which means they had divorced and it would have been against the Law of Moses for them to marry).

Verses 21-22 Jesus is baptized and God acknowledges him as his son.

Verses 23-38 Luke's genealogy of Jesus is written to show Jesus not only as savior to the Jewish people through the patriarch, Abraham (see Matthew 1), but to the entire world through Adam. While several theories exist as to the different genealogies, it should be noted that Luke, being a Gentile, wouldn't be constrained to the Jewish tradition of tracing the Paternal lineage. Instead, Luke makes it clear that Jesus was assumed to be Joseph's, but in fact, it appears that Luke is tracing Mary's father's lineage (Jesus' nearest male blood ancestor would be Mary's father).

-- Jeff

[zen-says.livejournal.com]

being born a jew deserves no special treatment? isn't the jews the chosen nation regardless how the jews act?

god chose the jews because of something? so god's love is not unconditional?

pleezzzzzz