Proverbs 30-31

[wolfpurplemoon]

Here we have five questions that apparently show it is "absurd for a mere mortal to think that he can explain God’s work or compare himself to God" (annotation in a pro-Christian version of the bible):

Who has ascended into heaven, and then descended? Depends on your definition of heaven I guess, if it just means the sky (the heavens) then quite a lot of people have now been up and back from the air, and from space, a feat unthinkable in the time this was written.
Who has gathered up the winds in his fists? Meaning he has control over the forces of nature. Well, we may actually have managed that unintentionally through climate change, and even if we can't control them we know all the forces and processes behind the weather and volcanoes/earthquakes so we don't need to explain it all with God
Who has bound up the waters in his cloak? Again, we know the processes behind cloud development and we have the ability to cause a cloud to rain.
Who has established all the ends of the earth? Also, we know the processes that formed the Earth, so we don't need to explain it with God
What is his name, and what is his son’s name? I'm not sure what this proves, I don't know the names of most of the people on Earth, or their sons, but that doesn't make them God.

And apparently you can't add to or change the words of God, so all that stuff that noone follows anymore should be followed to the letter, it really is all or nothing with this scripture stuff, otherwise you are a liar.

I guess every generation since records began has been rebellious against their parents: There is a generation who curse their fathers and do not bless their mothers.

The rest of Proverb 30 is made up of various lists, we have things that a particular sage can't understand or finds so wondrous that they must be from God, and then some small but amazing things (apparently ants have no strength, in fact they can each carry many times their own body weight), and finally some magnificent animals, similar to a king with his army.

Apparently it is a good thing to give needy people strong drinks so they can forget their sorrows, but also speaking up on their behalf.

Now a list of virtues that are very hard to find in a woman, this woman sounds very independent (growing a vineyard from her own income) and respected in her community and she runs an efficient and loving household while her husband sits with the elders. It's not clear why she needs this husband of hers, especially as she is to get credit for her own work.

Looks like I made up for yesterday's entry!

Comments

[kevinswitzer.livejournal.com]

Hi Amy,
I'm going to answer in biblical thought here:

The biblical definition of "the heavens" is the paradise you go to after death... not the sky.

Although we can explain the reasons behind weather... can we describe the reasons behind the reasons? For example, we know that storms happen when two fronts collide... but what caused the fronts?

And sure, we have the ability to cause a cloud to rain... but we didn't ALWAYS have that ability. Clouds just did it. And before we figured it out, there is something behind the nature.

We're not supposed to change the words of God. But we can interpret them in different ways. Quite often, what I see is that people interpret them to suit their needs, or more often say, "well, that was written a long time ago when things were different." For example, the whole argument about homosexuality. But if you're really going to judge people and say homosexuality being a sin, you have to take a look at yourself and see the sin in your own life. Such as... the bible says not to shave your sideburns, or wear clothes made of two different fabrics. So yeah... everyone is sinning in terms of the bible.

One thing I'm noticing is that you are taking the bible very literally, which I can understand. But, from my experience, the bible isn't written literally. My fear is that by reading it literally, you're thinking that the writers of the bible (or the followers of Christ) are complete idiots.

[wolfpurplemoon]

Heaven: Well noone has ever come back from being truly dead so I guess that noone has ever 'descended from heaven', that being said, I've not noticed God popping by either.

The weather: I think meteorologists and other scientists have worked out what causes all aspects of the weather, we might not be able to predict exactly what all those forces will produce at any given moment but we know why and what the causes are. We also know why the sky is blue and what causes rainbows.

Making clouds rain: If we went back to biblical times and used our ability to make the clouds rain they'd probably think it was magic. And the verse was declaring these questions as five wonders that no human could ever reproduce, which is no longer true.

I wouldn't say the writers of the bible were idiots in fact these people were probably the great thinkers of their time. I understand the mindset behind wanting to find out how our world works and when something seems to have no explanation there was a time when a higher power would have seemed the logical answer. But we now have a much greater knowledge of our universe and we shouldn't put God in the gaps that remain instead of continuing to look further and deeper to advance our understanding of everything around us.

I do agree that I'm very literal, but the bible does swing between stuff that's supposed to be true and things that are apparently not to be taken as truth, which is hard to follow to be honest, so I just assume that within the narrative it is all true.

[kevinswitzer.livejournal.com]

Well, Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead. And how do you expect God to pop by? A giant hand from the sky?