Isaiah 36-41
Sep. 12th, 2010 08:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
wolfpurplemoon posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
wolfbiblemoonA messenger from the King of Assyria tells King Hezekiah and the rest Jerusalem that they can not trust anyone, not the Egyptians or God. He tells them that Hezekiah is misleading them when he says that the Lord will protect them. No Gods of any nations have protected them from the might of Assyria.
But these other Gods were made by men so that's why they didn't protect them (superiority complex much?). God sends an angel to kill 185,00 Assyrian troops, that showed them I guess.
I feel like I've read some of this before, a king who's dying is told he'll live 15 more years and won't believe it until he sees the sun goes backwards in the sky. An event that has never and will never happen, things like this help confirm that these are all merely stories.
Isaiah warns the king that showing the messengers from Babylon who brought get well soon gifts all around his treasure house and armoury was a bad idea because one day all those things will belong to Babylon.
In comparison to God all people, nations and kings are like insignificant grasshoppers. I guess I can get behind that sentiment, as the Earth and all life on it is a tiny insignificant part of the whole universe. However, telling people that your God makes them insignificant doesn't really help with the whole getting people to follow you thing, so we have some stuff about God helping tired and weary people carry on (because it could never be their own inner strength that they draw on of course)
OK that's rich, God is calling out the people of other nations who worship other Gods to produce evidence, he wants proof that any prophecies were fulfilled and them to do some kind of big act to show their existence. Like there is so much proof of the God of the bible.
But these other Gods were made by men so that's why they didn't protect them (superiority complex much?). God sends an angel to kill 185,00 Assyrian troops, that showed them I guess.
I feel like I've read some of this before, a king who's dying is told he'll live 15 more years and won't believe it until he sees the sun goes backwards in the sky. An event that has never and will never happen, things like this help confirm that these are all merely stories.
Isaiah warns the king that showing the messengers from Babylon who brought get well soon gifts all around his treasure house and armoury was a bad idea because one day all those things will belong to Babylon.
In comparison to God all people, nations and kings are like insignificant grasshoppers. I guess I can get behind that sentiment, as the Earth and all life on it is a tiny insignificant part of the whole universe. However, telling people that your God makes them insignificant doesn't really help with the whole getting people to follow you thing, so we have some stuff about God helping tired and weary people carry on (because it could never be their own inner strength that they draw on of course)
OK that's rich, God is calling out the people of other nations who worship other Gods to produce evidence, he wants proof that any prophecies were fulfilled and them to do some kind of big act to show their existence. Like there is so much proof of the God of the bible.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
FAITH
Date: 2010-09-12 09:02 pm (UTC)Re: FAITH
Date: 2010-09-12 09:10 pm (UTC)And, of course there are concerns and striving to be a better person when you are free from faith in God. This is the one life we have so why wouldn't we make it the best we can for us and the people we interact with? And the Earth is the only world we have so making it the best world we can is also important for us and our descendants. If we don't have faith that humanity can do better then that is one incredibly depressing existence.
Re: FAITH
Date: 2010-12-02 01:14 am (UTC)But that's all faith is. Whether it be in God, mankind, or oneself it is always blind. But that's why it is called faith and not fact :). Don't you just love faith? Always nice to have something to be hopeful in :).
Re: FAITH
Date: 2010-09-13 02:12 am (UTC)However, an error is of man, not of GOD, correct? And you found no errors in the Bible? I wonder about a few passages I have read, perhaps you could explain then?
* Gen 32:30 states, "...for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." However, John 1:18 states, "No man hath seen God at any time..."
*2 Kings 8:26 says "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..." vs. 2 Chronicles 22:2 says "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..."
*2 Samuel 6:23 says "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death" vs. 2 Samuel 21:8 says "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul"
*2 Samuel 8:3-4 says "David smote also Hadadezer...and took from him...seven hundred horsemen..." vs. 1 Chronicles 18:3-4 says "David smote Hadarezer...and took from him...seven thousand horsemen..."
*1 Kings 4:26 says "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots..." vs. 2 Chronicles 9:25 says "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots..."
*2 Kings 25:8 says "And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month...Nebuzaradan...came...unto Jerusalem" vs. Jeremiah 52:12 says "...in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month...came Nebuzaradan...into Jerusalem"
*1 Samuel 31:4-6 says "...Saul took a sword and fell upon it. And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead and...died with him. So Saul died..." vs. 2 Samuel 21:12 says "...the Philistines had slain Saul in Gilboa."
*Gen 2:17 says "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eastest thereof thou shalt surely die [note: it doesn't say 'spiritual' death] vs. Gen 5:5 says "And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
*Matt 1:16 says, "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus..." vs. Luke 3:23 says "And Jesus...the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli"
*James 1:13 says "..for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." vs. Gen 22:1 says "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..."
*Gen 6:20 says "Of fowls after their kind and of cattle [etc.]...two of every sort shall come unto thee..." vs. Gen 7:2,3 says "Of every clean beast thou shall take to thee by sevens...Of fowls also of the air by sevens..."
*Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." vs. John 19:30 "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
Re: FAITH
Date: 2010-09-13 03:50 am (UTC)Re: FAITH
Date: 2010-09-13 12:35 pm (UTC)Perhaps you should, a thorough knowledge of owns own religion seems a first step before advising others in their study in it.
If I said to you, I saw Barack Obama face to face, and then it later came out that I only spoke to him over the phone, the first question that you would ask me is why I lied to you. If I said I spoke to him, then there would be a question as to if it were in person or not, or if I said I saw him, there would be a question as to whether it was from afar, in a vision, or a dream. Face to face is rather clear about two faces being present. There are many ways that that sentence could have been written to avoid any misunderstanding. I, for one, am willing to overlook a simple mistake. This is an extremely old document. It was written by many people, in many different time periods, in many different languages, and translated multiple times by different groups, each for their own reasons, not always for religious reasons. It is not a novel or a history textbook the way we have today. The people were from cultures that, although we have historical records of, we would seriously find unrecognizable today.
To say that something like this contains no errors is not even an applicable statement. There is no context for it. It's like expecting a biology book written in the 13th century to have no errors compared to today's diagnostic medicine. It was as accurate as it could be at the time, but they had no concept of MRI's or CT scans or advanced treatment options that we have today.
This is not a matter of faith in your religion. This is a matter of being able to understand where your religion came from and why you believe what you do. Your beliefs did come from somewhere. They followed a very real path through history and were passed down through generations, evolving over time through various cultures. But they did not start out exactly as they are right from the beginning and it is important, especially if you are going to presume to teach others, but even more importantly if you are going to dedicate your life and mind to this religion, to understand what you are living for.
Re: FAITH
Date: 2010-09-14 02:08 pm (UTC)I use to think it was retarded to be all religious but then God found me and helped me believe. then i started reading the bible, so my faith isnt cause a book told me these things happened. My faith is cause i have had experiences that has made me come to know Him.
Re: FAITH
Date: 2010-09-13 02:13 am (UTC)1 Kings 7:23 "He made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
Circumference = Pi() x Diameter, which means the line would have to have been over 31 cubits. In order for this to be rounding, it would have had to overstate the amount to ensure that the line did "compass it round about."
Lev 11:20-21: "All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you."
Fowl do not go upon all four.
Lev 11:6: "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud..."
Hare do not chew the cud.
Deut 14:7: " "...as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof."
For the hare this is wrong on both counts: Hare don’t chew the cud and they do divide the "hoof."
Jonah 1:17: "...Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights"
Matt 12:40: "...Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly..."
whales and fish are not related
Matt 13:31-32: " "the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed which…is the least of all seeds, but when it is grown is the greatest among herbs and becometh a tree."
There are 2 significant errors here: first, there are many smaller seeds, like the orchid seed; and second, mustard plants don't grow into trees.
Matt 4:8: " Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them."
Unless the world is flat, altitude simply will not help you see all the kingdoms of the earth.
__________________________________________________________________
My only conclusion is that perhaps you are not speaking of the Bible, but, in fact, some other text that has less factual errors. If that is the case then I apologize for my presumption.
Re: FAITH
Date: 2010-09-14 03:04 pm (UTC)-Rachel
Re: FAITH
Date: 2010-09-14 06:15 pm (UTC)You want factual errors, try science.
Date: 2010-09-23 12:24 pm (UTC)Microevolution and macroevolution, many scientists find disagreements.
Even the references you make to the least of seeds being that of a flower as proof of a factual mistake, may in fact be a contextual mistake on your part. You assume that is representing the every seed in existence's size, but it may have been representing size within what people cultivate.
As for Jesus saying that no man has seen the Father, it helps if you put the whole verse, Christ is also God.
John 1:18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[a][b]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Again, it's context. One word possible explanation is THEOPHANY. Moses spoke to God as one would a friend (Exodus 33:11), but at another point he has to be placed in a rock and then can only see God's back (Exodus 33:20). First one, Jesus, second God, the Father.
Abraham also spoke to the Lord in human form, and yet did not die.
Christ makes a distinction that the Father has not been seen.
Humanity is filled with mistakes, but if I make the mistake of not believing in science and I am wrong, nothing lost. If I make the mistake of not believing in God, and I am wrong, major problems. Nothing that this world can do will ever compare to what God can do--period.
Everyone person has the ability to ask sincerely, "God, do you exist?" Not everyone will though.
We can spout inaccuracies all day, but the truth is that is the only question that matters. One question asked in humility can change a life forever.
See you on the other side.
just a suggestion
Date: 2010-09-29 12:05 pm (UTC)Give your argumentative brain a treat, and let the facts speak for themselves. Or not.
Re: just a suggestion
Date: 2010-09-29 07:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-29 05:38 pm (UTC)Peace
Here's something that'll really blow your mind.
Date: 2011-04-06 01:07 pm (UTC)