wolfbiblemoon

So, you shouldn't fear someone who can 'merely' kill your body, because after that they can't do anything more to hurt you (that part's true). But you should fear the one with the power to throw you in to hell, after your death. As I've said before, no part of our concious mind can survive the death of our body, so it really is pointless to promise heaven or threaten hell to make people follow your religion.

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From:

shane jones (from livejournal.com)

The point of the god of the OT being so "tyrannical" as you put it, was to prove that it was impossible for mankind to do anything to earn their way into heaven. There is no way for anyone to keep the law. By our standards, the punishment for breaking the law is rather harsh, but we are not judged by mans standards. We are judged by Gods standards which are perfect standards. Zero tolerance so to speak. However I do agree that our feelings do not make anything true. it doesn't matter what we feel. Something either is true or it isn't. I could very well believe that I have that 3 headed, 4 handed, 9 tailed animal hidden in my basement, but that doesn't make it true.

From:

liedownlovely.livejournal.com

Something either is true or it isn't

If you say something enough times, it becomes true.

What is true for you is not what is true for everyone.

If you're a parent, perhaps you'd know; when a child is afraid of the dark, afraid of the 3 headed, 4 handed, 9 tailed animal under their bed, nothing you say will make them believe otherwise. The monster is there for them, that is what they believe wholeheartedly. Now you, after years of experience, may say nothing is there, check under the bed, leave on a nightlight, etc. But what if you can't see it and the child can? Does that make it non-existent? Or just to you?

What if I could see a color no one else around me could? What if I chose to name it Kuala Lumpur and described it as a hazy red-green? What if science proved the color existed beyond normal human spectrum?

What is true for you is not true for anyone else, nor should it have to be.

From: (Anonymous)

Truth
n. pl. truths
1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
3. Sincerity; integrity.
4. Fidelity to an original or standard.
5.
a. Reality; actuality.
b. often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.
Real truth is not subjective. The child can believe wholeheartedly that there is a monster under the bed, but that doesn't change the truth that there isn't a monster under the bed. There's a difference between truth and belief. You can believe something as hard and strong as you can, but that won't make it the truth. A truth is always true. Just a few hundred years ago, everyone believed the world was flat and that Sun circled the Earth. However, that didn't change the fact that the truth was that the Earth was a sphere and that the Earth orbited the Sun.

Marci

From:

liedownlovely.livejournal.com

I'm aware of the dictionary description. But let's break it down.

Conformity to fact or actuality. It is not a fact that heaven, hell, god, jesus, the bible, or any other part of the belief system is true. It's called a belief because there is no way to prove one way or another that it is actually true.

Here is where the black and white part of truth gets tricky, and why we need 'gray' areas of truth; if 99% of the population cannot see a certain color, but it exists, it is truth by conformity, not truth by fact or actuality. "You gotta see it to believe it" as the saying goes. But just because 99% of people cannot see this color, it doesn't mean it doesn't truly exist - only that this color is said not to exist via truth by conformity. And IF that color is shown to exist and becomes visible to the other 99%, then it becomes truth by fact or actuality.

god's laws are not truth by fact or actuality because they cannot be shown or proven to be true. They are truths by conformity to those who adhere to the belief system.

A truth is not always true; god's laws are an example of that. They are personal truths or conforming truths for those who believe/conform to them. Right now, we humans use science as a means of determining what is true and what isn't true. But science, unlike religion, changes constantly as it discovers new truths about the universe, so really, nothing is true. We'll always be exploring and advancing our knowledge, discovering new lifeforms like NASA did just last week, rewriting what was hesitantly described as "true... for the moment".

Edited Date: 2010-12-09 04:21 pm (UTC)

From: (Anonymous)

Again, you're arguing between truth and belief. I believe that God's word is truth, you don't, and neither of us will find out 100% sure until we die. That is not to say that absolute truth does not exist. Yes science is changing, however, even scientists would say there were some truths. In science they are called laws, such as the law of gravity and the 1st and 2nd law of Thermodynamics. By calling them a law, science says that they are always true and cannot be violated.

And it is not truth by conformity. If you read the definition it says that truth conforms to actuality or reality. That means that a truth must be actualor real. The people who cannot see the color believe that it doesn't exist. However, that doesn't change the truth that it does. Just because the people could suddenly see the color doesn't make it a truth by actuality. It was always true. We conform to what we believe is true, but truth never conforms to us.

From:

liedownlovely.livejournal.com

The people who cannot see the color believe that it doesn't exist. However, that doesn't change the truth that it does.

I don't believe god exists. He cannot be proven to be absolute truth, nor can his moral standards for human behavior. He is not gravity or thermodynamics; he does not control or manipulate anything around me, despite what Christians say. And until he is proven to be true, god is not real except to those who choose to believe that he is truth. Why push others to conform to a truth that is not a law of the universe, but a belief? Why make him out to be a fact of actuality when he is a fact of conformity? I really don't mind people believing whatever they wish, it's when they start trying to control institutions of government or wage wars against innocent people who don't believe equally that it grinds my gears. Conform to what you want. But don't start messing with actuality.

Here's (http://www.exitmundi.nl/bible/) a good site that lists (most) of its scientific sources and is an easy read about the bible and why it's a farce. Perhaps it'll give you some perspective on where I'm coming from.

From: (Anonymous)

Please don't misunderstand where I'm coming from. I'm not trying to force you to believe in God. No one can force belief on anyone else. The arguments I was stating had nothing to do with God or His truth. I was merely disagreeing with your statement that there is no absolute truth. Again, as I stated earlier, none of us will know the truth about God 100% until we die, but one way or another, one of our beliefs will be the truth, or possibly someone else's. But I really was not thinking about God or His standards when I posted my comments. I fully agree that this is my belief and that it cannot be scientifically proven. I was merely debating your wording and how you defined truth.

And I don't believe in judging those who don't believe what I do, nor do I believe that I can force them to behave the way I think a Christian should act. The only people I feel I should judge are those who say they believe what I believe and then act differently. That is, those who claim to be Christian and then go out and do something that is clearly not.(i.e. child molesting priests, adulterous pastors, abortion clinic bombers, etc.)

Marci

From:

liedownlovely.livejournal.com

And I don't believe in judging those who don't believe what I do, nor do I believe that I can force them to behave the way I think a Christian should act. The only people I feel I should judge are those who say they believe what I believe and then act differently. That is, those who claim to be Christian and then go out and do something that is clearly not.(i.e. child molesting priests, adulterous pastors, abortion clinic bombers, etc.)

And you have my respect for that. Thank you.